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While top representatives from each country...
were convening at the UN to discuss global peace-keeping and security,
despite the lack of any official recognition,
the self-appointed G's from around the world...
are convening for the peace-keeping...
and security of global youths,
hence the Non-Summit Meeting.
We shall begin the session.
I'm the Chairman of Non Summit Meeting, Jun Hyun-moo.
- I'm Secretary General Yoo Se-yoon. - I'm Chairman Sung Si-kyung.
We are Junyoosung!
(Welcome representatives.)
Welcome, everyone.
We will cover each representative's issues...
and share diverse opinions.
We discuss all global issues by saying yes or no.
Agree or Disagree, What is So Important?
For our first topic, we'll have Nik from Germany introduce it for us.
Recently in Germany, there was a lottery jackpot of 84 million euros...
which comes out to be about 94.6 million dollars.
This was the biggest Eurojackpot payout in history.
However, the government...
is under some scrutiny about facilitating gambling habits with the lottery industry.
So I ask this to you all,
"what do you think about government-operated lottery industry?"
I lay this issue to the Non Summit Meeting.
First, let's have you tell us a little about this "Euro Jackpot".
This started back in 2012.
About 17 countries in Europe participate.
They each had their own national lottery, but...
the systems were similar, so they decided to combine it.
So it's...
about picking seven numbers correctly.
You'll get the jackpot that way.
But since last May,
there was no jackpot winner, so the prize was enormous.
Even here in Korea,
the citizens criticized the lottery for facilitating gambling.
The debates are endless, but we're more curious about what you think.
Do you agree or disagree with the government-operated lottery?
Do you think it should be abolished or kept?
Please press the button if you think it should be abolished.
One, two, three!
It's Zahid and Christian?
(Keep, 9, Abolish, 2)
So the rest is for keeping?
I think it has a lot of benefits.
In the US...
or other countries, the government doesn't have much profits aside from taxes.
But with the profit from the lottery, the country...
can be doing a lot of positive things.
Even in our history,
universities like Princeton needed assets, too.
Those assets were first built with money from the lottery.
So it can be accredited for education, too.
The money can be helpful for many things.
But if we look at the people who actually buy the tickets,
it's usually poorer people.
So if you look at it from a certain point, they're taking from the poor...
to benefit others who may have more.
If poor people are buying the tickets,
then the winners are the same people, then.
I think it's a way of sharing wealth, too.
In fact, there are more payouts than just the first prize winner.
Of course, if average people are winning a lot, it'd be nice, but..
you have to look at the probability of winning. It's so low.
Can't you conclude that it's not really going to them?
- It's one person. - But I'm saying, it's...
like this in Italy. The first prize gets a lot, of course, but...
there are also thousand other winners per week.
You can get 50 dollars or even 100 or 80 dollars.
I don't think it's all that bad.
I actually don't know much about other countries, but...
if someone goes to the casino, you can really lose a lot.
You can gain a lot too, the amount makes it real gambling.
But in Italy, the lottery system...
- prevents spending more than a few dollars. - There's a limit.
So even if you go all out, it comes out to be 100 or 200 dollars.
- There's a limit per person? - Yes.
So if you're just playing for the fun of it, every week,
- As a hobby. - you can get lucky.
I really don't think the lottery is gambling.
In the case of the Swiss, it only happens twice a week.
Just like what Alberto said, there's a limit.
So it's a way to spread the wealth...
to the less-fortunate people. I think it's a good opportunity.
Since it's also financially beneficial to the government too,
it could boost the economy as well.
But, aren't they already getting taxes?
So the people are already paying a lot of taxes, but...
they're also having to buy lottery tickets on top of that.
Now it's just another tax to pay.
Also it's on your volition.
- But that's your own choice. - No, that's not it.
- I'm saying... - To you, Alex, it might be a personal choice, but...
it's the idea of taking advantage of the desire for wealth.
Right, they're literally selling hope.
They're selling hope to the poor people!
They're also building the grounds for that sentiment, too.
They're making them want to buy the tickets, so that they have to buy it.
If you look at the lottery and the relevant businesses,
if the government doesn't run it, shady organizations would take the role.
If those shady players do it,
the winners might not even get paid out.
It's just not honest.
For example, the business owner's family could keep winning.
Then we'd need to abolish those illegal entities.
But it's just human nature.
- It's just instincts? - Right, like betting.
Why isn't anyone calling the lottery ticket, "hope"?
The world is full of random events.
- It's full of what? - It's full of random events.
- What's random? - The world is filled with random events?
- Yes. - You mean it's full of fortunes and misfortunes?
- Random? - Random.
There's a saying like this in China,
"Even choosing your own parents is a technique in itself".
It's a real saying.
Wait, how do you choose your own parents?
Right, when we're born, we can't choose.
Simlin, did you choose yours well?
It wasn't bad.
Your parents "aren't bad"?
Congratulations.
Even in China, the lottery is seen as...
a means to reduce the difference between...
the different wealth classes.
- Yes. - To reduce the gap?
I don't think I agree with that.
- Really? - How is that possible?
Using the lottery to bring the poorer classes...
closer to the richer classes? Do you believe that's possible?
I think Simlin is just saying it can help reduce it a little.
- I think it's doing the exact opposite of that. - Right.
The less fortunate would...
spend even more to buy tickets. How can the gap be reduced?
While they're spending more,
they're also increasing their winning chances.
- They're selecting one person. - It's one person.
- So if that's it... - That one person could be you.
- It's not just me. - In my opinion,
- I think it's important to see how a country operates it. - That's important.
- If the money only goes to one person, - Right.
I also think that it should be abolished, that's unacceptable.
It's giving tax money to an individual.
The lottery isn't really erasing the differences between the wealth classes.
But it's giving a little glimmer of hope...
and as Aurelien said,
it's somewhat of a human instinct.
You know, like gambling and gaming.
If it's inevitably our nature, we'd rather see...
the nation take the reins away from shady organizations.
All right, we've got it. I'm curious though,
how much of the prize is taxed?
In the case of our Powerball, citizens have to pay 25 percent.
If it's a foreigner, it'd be 30 percent.
- It's only 30? - In places like Las Vegas,
if there's a jackpot, don't they offer permanent residency?
It's not issued like that, but...
it's something to entice the money to be invested in the US.
- They want the winner to buy a house or something. - So they want...
- the money to stay in the country. - Right.
"If you buy some land in the US, we'll give you residency."
- It's to have the money stay. - It's just like an investment.
So for Koreans, we'd probably have to pay taxes there...
and have to pay again when coming back to Korea.
So if you're the first prize winner,
they usually delay the payment for a year...
and process some kind of naturalization documents or something.
- Really? - They have options like that?
This one time, there was something between us poker players.
There was this winner who won about 10 million dollars.
It was 9.1 million dollars.
He was a Danish guy.
So in Denmark, they have to pay 75 percent in taxes.
- In taxes. - In Denmark?
- That's crazy. - If it's over 4 million, it's 75 percent.
If it's under that, it's 45 percent. Obviously, since it was so much,
he delayed getting the payment for a while.
Then, he came back to get the money...
as an English citizen.
- It's zero percent there! - Is that so?
In Japan, this is actually good news for foreigners.
It's not even taxable there.
So foreigners have the freedom to buy them.
- The tickets already have the tax included in the price. - It's included?
The 40 percent tax is included.
So when you're buying one, you're already paying the taxes.
Also, when you're getting the prize, you're getting everything.
But if you want the money deposited and sent to...
someone's own country, then...
- you're liable for the applicable taxes. - You have to pay that.
Wait, looking at India, you guys have a vasectomy lottery?
What is this?
- So that is... - Gosh.
Is it like, you have to get the surgery when you get selected?
No that's not it, it's...
- How's that a "lottery"? - Isn't it a punishment?
If you let me explain,
as you know, India has a lot of people.
We have about 1.2 billion.
It's a method to trim that down a bit.
- How? - So vasectomies...
obviously apply to the men who come seek it.
They first pay about 10 dollars.
- The actually surgery is free of charge. - It's like a blood donation.
- The operation is free? - Yes.
- That's crazy. - Also,
they have a list of patients.
They'll pick someone from there, at random.
If there's a thousand people who got it,
and let's say if Si-kyung gets picked,
Why? I really don't want it!
- "Mr. Sung". - Wait, I'm not even married yet!
"Mr. Sung, where are you?"
So if you get selected, the prizes range from cars...
to refrigerators and other prizes.
- Wow, the overpopulation must be serious. - So this is a promotion tactic.
(Not interested)
In the case of the US's Powerball,
they wanted to keep it fair, so...
they reveal the first-prize winner.
However, the reveal is causing some unforeseen risks, sparking some debates.
Apparently the winners really do get a huge amount of phone calls.
- Right. - Even if they don't reveal them.
They get calls asking for donations.
- They get a call from a friend they had not heard from in years. - Even in dramas,
(Did anyone see me win?)
- That's their first reaction! - That's what happens.
So what are your opinions on revealing the winner?
Should they reveal the identity or not?
If you think they should reveal it, press the button.
One, two, three.
That's Guillaume, Zahid, Mark and Lucky.
Mark, you want them to reveal the winner?
Of course, there can be issues with revealing the identity.
But you have to do it. It's the issue of...
offering transparency on a national level.
If there's no reveal,
- the country or the organization... - They can be shady?
could be taking the profits for themselves and...
just tell everyone that they awarded a winner.
- People need to know this. - You're saying this is the best way...
to prevent the money going to wrong places.
Wait, sorry, but if you just reveal the name...
it doesn't do anything for transparency.
So if you need to reveal their private information,
- it becomes an invasion of their privacy. - That's right.
Also, if you look at just typical taxes,
the government does reveal some information, of course.
But they don't disclose everything about how they spend it.
- Right. - If we trust the government,
we've got to trust them fully. I think it's more important to keep the winner safe.
Mark, how much do you want them to reveal?
It shouldn't just be their names,
we usually hold something like a press conference.
So the people come in front of a camera...
- and receive it. - It's like an advertisement.
- Do they show the faces? - Yes, they usually show it.
In China, the law prohibits a reveal.
So, as a Chinese citizen,
this is considered a private matter, so it shouldn't be revealed.
But it's similar to the US, you have to get your picture taken upon winning.
But to keep their anonymity,
they usually end up wearing some kind of a mask.
- That's right. - They were like a tiger mask.
Also lion ones, right?
The reason why I'm for it is because...
in Pakistan, we take pride in our giving nature.
So if one person wins, the prize...
is considered to be able to be shared.
You want the money to go to a good cause?
- I think there should be a system. - Isn't that dangerous?
- I could see that. - I can say "I got a billion dollars".
Isn't that dangerous? It is in Italy.
If that gets out, all sorts of shady people get to you.
- Like the Mafia! - In fact,
your friends would call you first, asking for a hundred thousand each.
- "How are you?" - There's no end to it.
If the winner wants to live his life like nothing happened...
and live somewhat freely,
don't they have the right to be left alone?
Of course, they just made a lot of money, but...
maybe they just want to keep working at their jobs, too.
That's their own freedom.
That's a really good point to bring up freedom.
They even have the freedom to remain hidden.
Also, average people don't really go around saying...
- how much they have in their bank. - True.
So as a lottery winner, why would I have to...
- reveal my financial information? - That's true.
As Mark said before, we all invested...
some money to this system.
So if that money is going to someone,
the citizens have the right to know where it's going.
When you're buying the tickets,
it stops becoming your money. It's like an exchange.
I'm getting a ticket in exchange for my money.
So it's not like they have any rights to the prize money.
It's not like the winner is holding a piece of my money.
For me, the answer...
lies with the winner's own decision.
In Germany, it's just like that.
If I want to be revealed, I can choose to.
If I don't want to, it doesn't happen.
- Are there people who want to be revealed? - Yes.
- Right, it's to brag. - They want to brag!
"I've got a billion dollars!"
But the lottery organization...
advises the winners...
not to buy expensive things for about six months.
They advise against telling people.
It's a recommendation, then.
Since there can be problems.
I've got a question here.
So the people can see this on TV, right?
How do you feel watching it?
I just think about buying more.
Frankly, you should be walking out to buy some.
I think about how dangerous it'd be for the winner.
- You do think about that. - That's marketing!
It's actually a big marketing tactic for ones like the US Powerball.
If you go to casinos, the winners...
are touted as a pride of the casinos.
They say, "you can be like them".
Oogi, what do you feel, then?
- Do you get jealous? - For me, I...
- Where do they live? - just think it of it as being none of my business.
Why are they even showing this to me?
That's such a Japanese thing to say.
- That's really Japanese. - Right.
- A different point of view! - It's not even my business?
- You didn't even ask for it, right? - Correct.
- Then... - I've got a question, too.
The payout doesn't just go to one person.
There's a lot of winners, do you reveal them all?
- I've got something to say. - Even five-dollar winners get revealed!
In Canada, if you want to remain anonymous, you can choose that.
- However, you can't get the money. - That's their right.
They don't give you the money?
There's even someone who's waiting to get 5 million dollars.
They didn't want to be revealed, so it's held.
Wait, so there should be a disclaimer at the time of purchase.
"If you are the winner, your identity can be revealed."
"Do you still want to participate?" Something like that.
- There is. - So if you get the first prize,
and want to be hidden, you don't get it. That's it.
You don't have to play either, actually.
I'm still playing.
Now, of course there probably were cases of counterfeiting.
In 2012, there was something involving a lottery organization.
Four employees plotted together to...
take advantage of the system.
The winner had to be selected through live TV, but...
they pre-recorded it and...
spread the winning numbers to their families.
- How could that happen? - So the families bought them...
and received about 12 million dollars.
But later, they found out the employees didn't come to work, so...
(It was suspicious.)
it became suspicious. - They'll definitely catch you if you do that.
- That's so obvious of them! - They should have acted like nothing changed.
How are they so careless?
They were just too happy that it succeeded, right?
In Italy, we have the winners selected by cities.
Each cities have their own.
This incident happened in Milan.
It was an incident in 1999.
When they were selecting the winners on live TV, they...
had a child come out and reach for the winning number, blindfolded.
- They had a kid do that? - A kid?
- They made him do it? - It's probably because kids are honest.
- I can see that. - But,
these people had been planning this for six years.
- Six years? - Yes.
They even paid the kid off.
- I wonder how much he got. - Also...
when they had put the blindfold on him...
to prevent him from seeing,
they kind of loosened it, a little.
They put some kind of spray on it too.
It'd look like a normal ball to everyone, but...
it was noticeably marked, when seen from up close.
So they went ahead with this for a bit, then...
they changed it because they got paranoid.
They went and picked out the numbers beforehand...
and had the balls heated up or cooled.
That was in a movie, having them stored in a fridge.
So they knew to pick them out due to the temperature.
That's really smart.
- But after all, - It seems like the kids probably need training, too.
They can't go and yell, "wow, this is cold!"
- It can't be that cold! - "It's cold."
The way they got caught was...
because the same kid kept coming out.
They were not letting other kids participate.
- They were supposed to send them off. - The kids had to be on rotation.
- The kid probably kept growing, too. - They couldn't switch them.
Though the scale is a bit smaller in Japan,
there was an incident in Fukui Prefecture, in 2013.
It involved about 550,000 yen,
which comes out to be about 5,500 dollars.
They just flat-out lied to the consumers, saying there was no winner.
The employees of the company just took everything.
So they looked at the winning ticket...
and played it off like it wasn't a winner?
"You were so close!"
Why do you have to say it like that?
(You were so close.)
I can't deny that it really draws a clear picture, though.
- You were so close. - You were so close.
So the way they found out...
was because the winner always picked the same numbers.
- For their whole life? - Yes.
- That was how they found out. - It just had to be like that.
If it wasn't that person,
- it would've been buried. - Yes.
So, what do you guys want to do if you won the lottery?
I want to buy JTBC.
(Breaking news, Aurelien wants to buy JTBC.)
You want to buy it?
- You want to be a director! - Wait, why?
I see it as an investment.
Please keep this show alive.
What are you going to do after you buy it?
- Are you going to do a newsroom? - I want some dramas...
and make some movies, too.
"Everyone, speak only in French."
We get to do a few programs, too.
As you know, I'm from northern Pakistan, near the Himalayas.
There aren't any good hospitals...
and just one university.
So if I were to win the lottery,
I want to build a hospital and a university.
- I know you're saying all this, but... - Will he?
you said you wanted to buy an apartment in Apgujeong-dong.
Also, I want an apartment in Apgujeong-dong.
(The real story)
- You're so witty! - That must be for real.
(The witty G's lottery dreams)
Now, they say rising uncertainties of the future...
directly affects the rising ticket sales,
isn't this an issue of the citizen's hopes and dreams?
As such, the management should be transparent while handling such things.
Also, you are all lottery tickets.
- That's too cliche. - I actually heard it from somewhere, too.
So we hope to see it being used for the good of the country...
and as transparently as possible.
Now, let's listen to what Canada has brought in.
"Recently in Canada, those who are wanting citizenship..."
"are increasingly making maternity trips there."
"It keeps growing."
"The newborns who are granted the citizenship..."
"have the same benefits as other citizens."
"They include welfare, education, and medical services."
"So the Canadian citizens must bear..."
"the unpredictable amount of pressure."
"So I ask you all, what do you think about maternity trips?"
"I lay this issue to the Non Summit Meeting."
- We've got it. - Now, this is involving the Canada-born babies, who...
are receiving various benefits.
Do the parents get citizenship, too?
- In the US they do. - It changed.
It's been changed.
In the US, the parents don't get it.
But when the child grows up, they can sponsor their parents.
They can invite the parents to the US.
- There's something called "Anchor Babies". - That's the term.
- "Anchor Baby"? - Like a ship anchor.
(An anchor for the parents)
Now, what do you guys think about this?
Do you think it should be limited or constrained?
Or is it a personal freedom-of-choice?
Please press the button if you think it should be limited.
We must limit it.
Look at them pressing it.
So most are for limiting it. Mark, you don't want to limit it?
Right, I don't.
- America is the land of opportunity, after all. - Why not, though?
This is actually a really big part of our culture.
People from so many countries make up ours.
So, aside from your heritage, if you were born here,
that should be our unifying quality.
That's how the country was founded.
So if you're just born there, you're an American.
But if you end up moving there, the naturalization is really hard.
Even getting a working visa is really hard.
So if I was just relying on my parents' wealth and was born there,
everything would've been so easy. I don't think that's fair.
- The benefits too? - It's a matter of getting...
everything without giving anything back.
I think that's unproductive.
I think you need to work for things like that, everywhere you go.
I don't think there's a problem if the baby would continue to live there.
I think it's something nice, but the problem...
is when they have the kid and go back to their countries.
Specifically, in China,
there was a law limiting the number of children.
- I don't know if it's still there or not. - It's two.
Now, if the third and fourth kids...
get a Canadian citizenship,
- they can avoid the legal ramifications. - Is that okay in China?
You can just say that the baby is foreign.
Then a lot of wealthier people probably did that in Canada.
- Right, so... - It happens a lot.
from a Chinese person's perspective, we think it needs to be limited.
If there are no limits,
then it'll just inflate the number of people...
who want to make these maternity trips.
Then our own economy's growth...
will be halted, or at the least, undergo some hardships.
Also, if I don't have money and have to stay in the country,
I'll end up seeing it as having no choice.
I think that'd cause more rifts in the society.
Now, we're living in 2016.
More and more people have options...
to do things on their own accord and power if they can afford to.
In the countries like the US or Canada,
they should grant those kind of personal freedom...
- more than others. - However,
This is all because of the issue of freedom, that we grant citizenship.
Since the US is known as "the land of the free", or "the land of opportunity".
- So as they do it freely... - I have a question!
As Nik said, the ones going to the US and working hard...
have a hard time when they're trying to get naturalized.
How's that a "land of the free" or the "land of opportunity"?
How's that a "land of the free"?
- I don't know. - I think...
If the people these days want to do things freely...
and believe it,
why can't I become a Japanese citizen?
Even if I go and save the king's life,
- I can't be a Japanese citizen. - I think it'd be nice,
your name should be Niku.
- It could be Niku-san. - Niku-san.
- Think about it. - It's Niku-san.
It has a ring to it.
- Even I know that I can't do anything to become that. - You're right, but...
I see that to be an issue too.
Because of that, you can't let it affect this one.
What I wanted to say was,
let's flip the perspectives.
No matter who it is, nobody wants to have their baby...
away from their home.
The reason for doing it, is because there's a necessity.
It's because the country doesn't have the benefits set up properly.
It could be education.
It's for the baby, right?
It's definitely for the baby.
Also, if it's a dangerous country,
like a war zone, you can try to avoid it and go on a maternity trip.
It's a possibility.
But in a developing nation like India,
shouldn't there be a stronger senses of patriotism or responsibility?
I wonder why that's not the case.
- It's actually pretty selfish in some ways. - Right.
A citizenship definitely has its benefits, but...
there are duties, too.
So, if citizenship is given out too easily, the sense of duty can be dulled.
It's about the sense of responsibility towards their own country.
Whoever gets one just ends up going back home, anyway.
- Why do I want to struggle at all? - Later, you can just say you don't want to.
- Right. - I want to say something to Alberto.
There's no dual-citizenships in India.
For example, if you have a baby overseas,
the baby does get the respective citizenship.
But they can't get an Indian one. It's not available.
- That's how it is. - So...
if you look at this as a global picture,
you can focus on the struggling countries like Syria.
- They don't even have schools. - That's different.
If we even deny them entry,
it's like we're denying responsibility. - It's not like...
they're leaving Syria just to have a baby and go back.
They are leaving completely.
- The Syrians have no other choice. - I think that's fine.
In Italy's case, if someone comes, has a baby and lives there,
they just issue a citizenship. But...
the process of leaving, having a baby, then coming back,
is really just irresponsible.
I admit that, too.
Now we have the numbers for Korean babies from maternity trips to the US.
It's about 5,000 babies per year.
Though it's not cheap at 20,000 to 80,000 dollars, the number keeps increasing.
We're curious if it's flourishing in your own countries.
For the celebrities in my country,
they do make a lot of maternity trips to the US.
- Celebrities? - Yes.
It was a really big issue.
In 2007, the number was only at...
about 600 babies, back then.
But looking at 2013, it blew up to 20,000.
So in 2016,
it's projected to be at 100,000.
(Now it's 100,000.)
We actually have issues with China about this.
If you want to come to the US, you need a visa.
Since these are pregnant ladies, they can't be denied.
Now, Chinese companies set up hotels for pregnant women.
They built it in the west coast.
As these weren't operating legally,
- they were run illegally. - Is that so?
- There were cases like that. - After doing some research,
there are even sites that promote and introduce them.
You can select a city in the US...
and pick one that's lax in their immigration procedures.
- That's fascinating. - So they even recommend the easy places.
- Those really exist. - Did Trump have anything to say about this?
Now, Trump is a republican.
He's against automatically issuing citizenship.
I could see that.
In Mexico's case, a lot of them go to the US.
- They do? - Yes.
We call it "Maternity Gangs".
- "Gangs"? - I meant "Maternity Tours".
It's maternity tour.
- So they're not gangs. - There are two reasons why they do it.
The reason why wealthy people send their kids to the US...
is because of the baby's stable future.
For the poor, when they send the kids to the US,
they may all get invited themselves.
- Like we said before! - Right.
There's something disappointing here, though.
When people go there illegally,
the kids don't have a birth certificate.
There are about 280,000 babies like that.
They can't receive any social benefits, like education.
- It's a worry. - Because they are there illegally?
- It's because they're illegal, right? - Yes.
With the Swiss, it's not because of a Swiss citizenship...
that they are making the maternity trip,
they do it for the baby's health and safety.
It can look healthy and safe.
There are a lot of famous...
maternity clinics in Switzerland.
Just last year, the Russian president, Putin's own...
girlfriend had her baby in my hometown.
(Putin's girlfriend?)
- Putin's girlfriend? - Just a girlfriend.
It's not the first lady, but just girlfriend?
I think he originally had a wife, but...
- it's probably just a girlfriend. - I think she's a gymnast.
(Mumbling)
Putin...
I just asked him if she's pretty.
Alberto said, "Of course, she's Putin's girlfriend".
He sounds like a middle-aged Korean man.
Now, the problem is that maternity trips makes it too easy to get a citizenship.
So what are some requirements for your countries to issue...
out citizenships?
First, if you were born in the land, the issuing is automatic.
You said it's not only just on "land".
It's not just on-land.
There's also maritime and airspace guidelines too, right?
Isn't there something with being around at the border upon delivery?
There's an interesting case regarding that.
There was a Taiwanese woman, who...
was pregnant on a flight to the US.
- She ended up giving birth on the flight. - Was it on US airspace?
She was on her way to the US.
It was just on-board the flight over.
She was really trying to wait it out.
She was waiting to get there!
"Are we in US airspace yet?"
- Goodness. - She kept asking the flight attendants.
This part really surprised me.
The timing was right when they were above Alaska.
- That's... - They were in America, then!
Right, that's the US, but...
it's not the connected, continental 48 states.
You know, how it's separated. Right when they're above the edge of Alaska,
she ended up giving birth.
I think the timing was just perfect. She could've been Canadian.
- Right. - I actually think so, too.
I was really curious about that.
The teamwork between the mom and the baby have to be great.
Right when it's born, the mother and child high-five each other.
- Right after being born. - But what if the stewardess...
says, "Gosh, I'm so sorry!"
"You didn't make the cut!"
"We're just now passing."
Then the baby would cry like this.
(Starting life with low confidence.)
Is that going too far?
How about the embassies?
- It's foreign soil. - So it's like in the movies,
they jump over the US embassy walls and such.
Even soldiers come out to block people.
So if someone were to have a baby in an embassy,
- would they grant a citizenship? - That woman should've gone to one in Taiwan.
- Right. - Wait, does...
the airspace, stretching above the embassy buildings count?
- I don't think so. - All right.
In Mexico's case,
if the baby is born in a Mexican soil, airplane, or a boat,
then they're granted a Mexican citizenship.
- No matter where it is? - Right, it doesn't matter.
It just needs to be aboard a Mexican vessel, of sorts.
It can be obtained like that.
Now, since we've had a number of Brazilians and eastern-Europeans...
come to Italy for citizenships. So we established a rule.
If one of your parents is an Italian national,
the citizenship is granted.
If not, it's withheld.
Now, so if one is born in Italy,
at least one parent has to be an European...
from an EU country.
They'd also have had to live in Italy for four years or more.
If they're not from the EU,
they'd have had to lived for 10 or more years.
Since there are a lot of immigration issues these days,
there's a lot of refugee orphans.
They're automatically granted the citizenships.
For us in Switzerland,
the citizenship is really difficult to get. If the parents aren't Swiss...
and you're born there,
you can apply for it after living there for 12 years.
- Before 12 years, you're not a citizen? - Right.
So they really drive the importance of assimilating into the Swiss culture.
Also people should adapt to the culture of Switzerland very well.
They can apply for it after living there for a long time.
- Then do we need to take a test to emigrate to Switzerland? - Yes.
- There's a test. - It's on the culture of Switzerland.
- That makes sense. - True.
Isn't there a similar test in Korea?
- Yes there is. - We have a test.
A test to acquire Korean citizenship.
- It's required. - Candidates should take a test.
- It considers their Korean language skills and other factors as well. - Right.
There's an interesting research.
It says the most powerful passports in the world is...
- German Passport. - Why?
- Norway Passport used to top the ranking. - No way.
It looked at welfare and the potential to travel around the world without a visa.
Also it considers how difficult it is to obtain a visa from foreign countries.
As a result of the result, German citizens have the most powerful passports.
- And... - Why are you bragging?
- Exactly. - I mean, we...
don't need a maternity trip.
I just wanted to let everyone know that we don't that problem.
It's true that Germans don't go on a maternity trip,
but some Germans who can't have a baby come to India...
- to look for a surrogate mother. - I see.
Yes, that's right.
(We've come a long way from passports to surrogate mothers.)
So far we've discussed issues of each representative's country.
- We'll continue on Agree or Disagree, What Is So Important? next week. - Okay.
Now shall we greet today's guest representative?
There's Sherlock Holmes in the UK while there's Gil Grissom in the US.
But in Korea, we have this person who studies crimes.
She's Lee Soo-Jung, an expert in criminal psychology.
Welcome.
- Nice to meet you. - Welcome.
(Lee Soo-Jung, Korean, University professor and psychologist)
(She dedicated 17 years to studying the psychology of criminals.)
(A representative expert in Korea in the field of criminal psychology)
Please introduce yourself before we start.
Hello, I'm a criminal psychologist.
I've been studying cases involving criminals since early 2000.
For about 17 years,
I have met criminals.
While doing so, I had to visit prisons very often.
- It's because criminals are mostly imprisoned. - I see.
I had to interview them and study for what reason...
they committed crimes.
That's what I study and I've accumulated such research results.
- May I ask you a question? - Sure.
Do you go with officers when they interrogate the suspect?
- Do you interrogate them, too? - No, I don't.
One thing I have to make clear is, I'm not a police officer.
- I see. - You'll stay outside.
I'm a researcher.
Recently, random assaults or crimes on anyone...
take place quite often in Korea.
Those criminals don't have clear motivation.
When such violent assault is committed in a public place,
I study whether the criminal is normal or not...
and provide my overall opinion about it.
That's why you are here, the Non Summit Meeting.
- That was half a joke and half for fun. - I Know.
When you look at the faces here,
- is there anyone who looks suspicious? - No way, please.
Oh, no.
- She wouldn't study your face, but behavior. - You're right.
- True. - Does anyone here give you a bad feeling?
You've met a number of criminals so far. Think about their faces.
- Statistically. - The most suspicious people are those who avoid eye contacts.
- Zahid avoided her eyes. - Yes.
- He didn't meet her eyes. - Zahid avoided her eyes.
- I'm looking forward to today's discussion. - Right.
Let's begin the 114th Non Summit Meeting.
It's an issue raised by Professor Lee.
"I think there's no perfect crime in the world."
"Therefore, the issue I'd like to raise is..."
"I believe all unsolved criminal cases in Korea can be resolved."
"Am I abnormal?"
- I wish they'd say it's normal. - If they say it's abnormal...
She will catch us.
- I got you! - Right.
Criminals would say it's abnormal, right?
- Yes. - I think it's not going to be easy.
Yes. Realistically.
Actually, what I wish for is...
that a perfect crime never happens.
But definitely there are cases left unsolved.
One famous example is the serial murder case in Hwaseong.
Criminals for those cases haven't been caught yet.
I have a question for you.
(Waving hands)
In reality...
What are you doing to your old friend?
I just wanted to look at her. I did it to Alberto.
(Sorry)
Alberto got in the way and obstructed my view.
So in reality, what's the success rate?
I mean the rate that criminals are actually caught by the police.
The arrest rate of murderers in Korea is...
among the highest in the world. Therefore,
- As to murder cases, 97 percent of criminals... - Really?
- are arrested. - How relieving.
But the problem is the very small number of unsolved cases.
There are criminals who haven't been arrested.
- I feel bad about that. - Yes.
We're going to talk about unsolved cases and correctional facilities.
Let's have an in-depth discussion.
Any country would have an unsolved criminal case.
What's the most shocking case?
In 1980s, in Mumbai, India...
people who were sleeping on the street were attacked.
Someone hit them in their heads with a rock and killed more than 20 people.
But the criminal never got caught.
He got a nickname, "Stone man".
- Oh, my. - Was it a random attack?
Yes it was. He just attacked people sleeping on the street.
He just randomly walked around the streets in the night...
- and hit their head with a big rock. - Don't do that.
During that time, a similar case...
took place in Karachi, Pakistan. It was pretty much the same.
In 1980s, a group of people...
attacked the homeless on the street with a hammer...
while they were asleep.
Did he move from Pakistan to India, then?
- I don't know how come he went there. - Pakistan to India.
Even now, they are still called...
"Hammer Group".
- We have stone man. - Nobody knows why. They just randomly killed people.
In 1988, in China,
a crime was committed in Baiyin and it hasn't been addressed yet.
In particular, the criminal...
liked women dressed in red.
He'd follow such women and kill them. Then he sexually assault them.
Lastly, he cuts the dead body into pieces.
Lastly...
Cut into pieces like this.
As far as I know, a total of 11 women were...
killed by the man.
But isn't red a popular color that's worn a lot by Chinese people?
Yes we do wear it a lot. So it stirred a lot of controversy back then.
People said you shouldn't wear red clothes.
Until now, we're still not able to find any clues about the criminal.
(However)
(After 28 years, the suspect was arrested on August 29th.)
(Gao Chengyong, the suspect)
(A similarity was found between DNA collected from the suspect's uncle...)
(and the DNA left at the crime scene.)
(The police compared DNA samples of everyone in his family...)
(and reached the conclusion that Gao Chengyong is the suspect.)
- Like the serial murder case in Hwaseong, - Yes.
there were murder cases that occurred in the same neighborhood...
in Mexico.
It happened in the northern part of Mexico, in a place called Ciudad Juárez.
From 1993 onwards, 500 women were killed.
- What? - Really?
Yes, 500. Most of the victims were...
between 15 to 25 years old.
They were poor.
(Female laborers between 15 to 25 were killed after they were raped.)
There were many reasons for this crime.
One of the reasons was because of Mexico's macho culture.
Someone had raised this as a possible reason.
- The Mexican government started to assert its power to protect women. - Just women?
- It was a hate crime against women. - The victims were all women.
In Canada, we also had unsolved case that involved the indigenous people.
Most of the indigenous victims were young females.
They disappeared. From 1980 onwards, around 4,000 people have gone missing.
Most of the cases...
can be considered a kidnapping.
There were many murders, too.
I thought Switzerland was a peaceful country.
- Did you also have an unsolved case? - Yes, we don't have a lot of murders,
we have a lot of missing persons cases.
- So, - Missing persons?
- We don't know what happened to them. - Yes.
A lot of people do dangerous sports on the Swiss Alps.
After an accident,
we have so many cases that if I wanted to kill someone,
I could just kill them on the mountain...
and claim that the person had disappeared.
The country is surrounded by nature.
- There are no security cameras. - Yes.
- It would be difficult to find the victim. - Recently,
- due to global warming... - They keep finding them.
a lot of the snow has melted.
So, a lot of people who had disappeared in the past have been found.
The bodies would be well-preserved, right?
That means they can investigate.
(They have the clues to solve the missing person case.)
In Korea, the Naju murder incident was a situation...
where the found a clue to the solve the case, right?
- Could you explain what happened? - This happened in February of 2001,
through an online chat room, a female high school student...
talked with an unknown man and went to meet him.
She went missing and a few days later...
her naked corpse was found...
near a river side in Naju.
At that time in 2001,
they were able to obtain DNA...
from inside the victim's body.
However, back then we didn't have the technology...
to extract the DNA from the body.
In 2012, a new DNA extraction technique was developed...
- and we were able to obtain the DNA. - We did it.
To try and find the suspect,
we scoured the criminal database...
and found that the suspect was someone who was already in jail for murder.
(Currently the suspect is denying the charges as a facade.)
We do solve cases due to technological advancements,
but I'm sure each country has their own unique method to solve cases.
- Yes. - In Germany,
the police likes puppies a lot.
(What?)
- Puppies are this big. - I mean dogs.
- Dogs. - "Okay, go find the culprit."
It's a sting operation.
"You're so cute."
The puppy bites you like this.
- It's a trap. - The police...
- raise dogs in Germany. - A police dog.
- Police dog. - Police dog.
Police dogs.
There are about 500 police dogs at the moment,
- Shepherds? - Yes, German Shepherds.
About 80 percent of the police dogs in Germany are German Shepherds.
Only 1 in a 100 pass to become police dogs.
They receive intense training for 70 days.
The person who is training the dog...
does not have an owner and pet kind of relationship.
- They are like partners. - Are they like partners?
The dog owner also gets money, right?
They receive the money from the police station.
There's no animal that's better at finding things with its nose.
Yes, police dogs are very impressive.
Dogs are very useful when you are looking for a buried corpse.
- The smell. - Their sense of smell is more advanced.
In Italy it's not police dogs,
- we have police bugs. - Sorry?
- Police bugs? - Really?
It's a recent way of investigating cases.
In the 2000s, there was a murder case,
they extracted blood from a nearby mosquito.
Really?
- That's amazing. - After checking,
- they found that it matched that person's DNA. - How did they do that?
- Exactly. - Did they kill it...
(Everyone has tried this investigative technique.)
If it bites a police officer...
(Take it as evidence.)
It's because mosquitoes can fly far away,
- but the ones that have filled up on blood... - Right, they can't move.
- can't move because their heavy. - They are too full.
- They can't fly more than 106m. - They can't go any further.
- They can't fly any further. - Really?
You can use the mosquitoes around the area as evidence.
- How did they think of that? - I heard this in Italy, too.
These days, the techniques to examine a crime scene has been developed so much.
So someone went and reported...
the death of his girlfriend.
After the investigation, the soap dispenser...
- had the boyfriend's fingerprints. - The thing like this?
- Really, on the dispenser? - So the prints were found.
That evidence didn't go along with the guy's story.
He said that he had just gotten home, how did the prints get there?
(Goosebumps)
- So the reality is close to what you see on TV. - Right.
If we're talking about cops, we have to talk about Indian cops.
They can even turn bears into tigers.
They use anything and everything at their disposal.
They have something called the Narco Test.
The suspect is fed or injected with some drug...
- and induced into an abnormal state. - Hallucinogenic?
- Like in the movies? - Wow.
Is that for real?
Of course, you have to legally obtain clearance.
They have to notify the right people, too.
The reason why they do this is...
because the investigation may be at a dead-end.
The cops have no direction.
In situations like this, they use it to...
- find other leads. - To find a clue.
However, the law doesn't see this as hard evidence.
But the cops have a special approach to this.
Isn't profiling similar to this?
- Like being used as hints? - Right.
- Where can it be used? - In the case of profiling,
it really doesn't function as concrete evidence.
Even things like lie detectors don't either.
The only concrete evidence is hard facts.
It's physical evidence.
Things like DNA are solid evidence.
There's some heat in the US over some profiling software.
There is a debate about this.
It was developed by an Israeli company.
Now, they're just analyzing people's faces.
- It tells some information based on facial structure. - Face structure?
If they're a criminal,
they're saying it's visible on their faces.
That can't be true.
I'm not sure if it's real, but...
it became heated after an article...
reported that a US government department had a contract...
with this Israeli software company.
Now the system is in place...
to predict some likely criminals for the future.
- They're saying it's possible. - Like "Minority Report".
That doesn't even make sense, because...
just last week in the US, India's top actor, Shah Rukh Khan...
was apprehended as a terrorist, for the third time!
- He's an actor! - They're not even good at this using people.
How could a machine do better?
How could you peg an actor into a terrorist?
Honestly, what he just said was...
actually a real thing.
- It's something like "faception". - It's "faception".
Now they're looking at the muscle movement with the faces.
They're analyzing the mental states by doing that.
Normally, people's facial muscles...
are under the autonomic nervous system.
So if you're nervous, it shows on your face. - Unconsciously.
If someone needs some time,
they'll have a drink of water and...
relax their face a little bit.
That's actually how they catch criminals.
It's called "micro expression".
- It's an analysis of faces. - Why are you so nervous there?
He's hiding something.
It's not used always, but in Italy,
there are some changes with body temperature...
during the investigation.
They also look at the ocular movements.
- Don't they also look at their gazes? - Right.
I have a question, professor.
For psychopaths,
aren't they relaxed after a crime?
- That's a really good point. - They stare right into the eyes.
They've got different reactions from normal people.
For us, we show our uneasiness through our faces.
It shows through our facial muscles.
For psychopaths, there's a high chance it may not happen.
- They're just not that nervous. - The questions are exploding.
Obviously, different places have different cultures.
I like having eye contact with people I talk to.
But a long time ago, I got scolded by a Korean elder...
for making eye contact, and for me to look down.
- You're absolutely right. - "Look down!"
Professor, we say that Lucky has this look...
that works well with the ladies.
If you look at him, don't you sense some psychopath?
You should show it to us!
Wow, look at that.
(Am I wrong?)
For Korea, the term "psychopath"...
is still a relatively new word, right?
Right, it only started getting used after the 90's.
It was extensively used with the Yoo Young-chul case.
It was first used back then, in the early 2000's.
So we can't relate to them at all?
- What's some special characteristics? - They're just cruel.
They especially enjoy seeing others in distress.
- It's severe? - Yes, it's really strange.
They really push someone's limits to get a reaction, often through harassment.
Through crimes like sexual assault or murder,
they place themselves above others.
They usually think like that.
(That's not me.)
Now, the investigative shows...
like "I Want to Know",
do they help at all?
- Isn't it helpful to have the citizens helping? - Right.
The show is actually a leader in inciting citizen support.
But since we don't have something like that in China,
so I have a question.
Don't normal people get scared watching it?
- The criminal is still out there. - It's the scariest.
- That's the fun of it. - It's true, but in my opinion,
shows like that are necessary for us.
Aren't crime-dramas like "CSI" really popular in the US?
They're very popular.
I think we just like watching mysteries that we can solve together.
In my opinion, British shows...
are about narrowing down what someone's thinking.
But for American dramas or movies, they just scare you.
- That's not true. - There's no story!
It's just all graphics.
Wait, there's a lot of story, though.
I really don't think "CSI" is realistic at all.
- Look at it like this... - What are you saying?
They try to be technical, but it's not realistic.
It doesn't even make sense, half of the time.
They look at a picture and then zoom into infinity.
The pixels are totally visible.
The zoom magnification must be at a million.
It's always high definition!
- They've got technology like that. - I'm so jealous when...
they run a database and find a match, no matter what.
Someone comes in with some papers.
"Hey, I've got a match. It's here."
It's always a lady, too.
- It's not that hard for them, either. - I know.
Of course, it's not real.
- Is that so? - Right.
- It's just a bit exaggerated. - It's not real?
There's something similar, but...
the performance is way lower.
But they keep introducing new ideas...
through shows like this.
The creativity from those shows...
really does help the people on the field.
It really helps people develop the technology as well.
Was there something that you just couldn't accept?
Like what you mentioned, the database matching everything.
Frankly, there's no one database to match anything.
Of course, building such a database is really important.
Even we are trying hard to do something like that.
It's taking a lot of effort.
Now, do you all...
have some crimes that you think is more serious?
For India,
it has to be a rape-murder.
From 2013,
there has been changes with the law regarding its punishment.
Is it due to the incident involving the bus?
Right, that was in 2012.
- The international scrutiny was probably unbearable. - From 2013,
the laws became extremely strict.
The minimum jail time starts at seven years...
and it even goes up to capital punishment.
Now, the criminals are wanting to erase the evidence, so...
they're resorting to committing murder, too.
- To erase evidence? - Right.
Since the laws became stricter, when they're caught,
They have to locked up for seven years anyway.
There were people who worried about that in Korea, too.
In the early 2000's,
our punishment for sexual crimes were really lax.
The punishments wasn't harsh.
So as we increased the severity of the punishment,
we wondered if that'd increase the murder counts.
Though it was a concern,
fast-forward to now, which is 10 years later.
Murders haven't increased.
The German people also regard sexual assault as a serious crime.
If it happens,
until your last days, the memories...
stay with you, in the form of a trauma.
We think child-rape the most grave crime.
It can really destroy their mental states.
They can even develop serious disorders.
As you just said, the sexual assault victims...
go through a murder of their soul.
Their mental state goes into ruin.
It's like they just can't function.
Though they end up reporting it,
the relevant parties in charge don't really perform with due diligence.
Naturally, it ended up being a crime that was not reported.
So we saw a very small number of cases.
The biggest difference however,
was when we started seeing some child-rape-murder cases.
There were some serial cases in the early 2000s.
We had a death in Jeju Island...
and one in Anyang and Yongsan.
So there was a strong sentiment to prevent this from happening.
The dead cannot speak.
So it'd circulate in the media for a week or so,
then like the saying just out-of-sight and out-of-mind.
But there was one child who survived.
This was Na-young, in the Cho Doo-soon case.
- Is that "Nayoungee"? - Right.
Of course, that's her fictional name.
It's not her real name.
All of her reproductive organs were ruptured.
She was found with her intestines out of her body.
Of course, the story really caught traction in the media.
This case was a definitely wake-up call.
So the specialized laws for sexual crimes were established.
What's the gist of it?
In regards to the punishment,
especially for child-rape,
there's no sentence reduction for intoxication.
That one is named after Cho Doo-soon.
All right.
For us, child trafficking is really serious.
Like the movie, "Man from Nowhere",
they'll take a child and harvest their organs...
and sell it off.
There was a case like that before.
Also, the number of kidnapped or missing children...
per year, amounts to about 200,000.
Even a little while ago,
we ran a camera-based experiment with a video.
They played the child and kidnapper.
He covered the child's mouth with a towel...
- at a place where there were a lot of people. - It was a pretend kidnapping.
Yes, they did it like a real kidnapping.
However, no one stopped him or called the police.
They didn't just do this once.
They did this about nine times.
After this video came out, even Chinese people...
felt frustrated. "Why didn't anyone stop him?"
- This was a little too much. - Is it like "wēiguān" which we talked about before?
- Just walking by. - Yes, that's it.
Whatever happens they just walk by.
Yes, they don't stop it. I think this is dangerous.
You've heard of the deep web, right?
- The deep web. - It's like the underworld of the internet.
Recently, an Australian...
made a site to sell and buy children.
- Gosh. - Inside the site,
there was information about a city in Mexico,
where the place was and at what price you could buy a child.
There was a lot of detailed information up there.
In the end, Australian police...
arrested the owner of the site...
the Mexican police could save the kidnapped child.
If this had happened in the past,
getting information for this would have been a lot harder.
But since, the internet has become such a developed tool,
- they could stop it. - What is the deep web?
Can we access it, too?
- Anyone can access it. - There are different levels to it.
There are many different levels. You've heard of P2P like torrent.
Download sites. We can access those areas.
If you go deeper, you can find classified information.
Files that normally can only be seen by the police.
- You can buy drugs, too. Payment isn't done by credit card, - Right.
it's done using the internet currency, Bitcoin.
It's not accessible through popular sites.
You have to access it through a specific browser.
It can only be accessed by going through numerous IP addresses.
That way it makes it impossible to find the original IP address.
- That's scary. - With a brain like that, why didn't they study?
- They say a lot of international crimes occur there. - That's complex.
There's a lot of serious problems with this,
but the cyber police are working hard to prevent cyber-crimes.
In the US there was a very famous TV program,
called "To Catch a Predator".
The program was about catching sex offenders.
In the show, they pretend to be young children.
As they talk to the person,
they wait for him to say, "come over to my place."
- They arrest him. - Yes.
- Yes. - In Korea, it's illegal to do a sting operation.
Unlike the program, in Korea it's illegal to use children...
- to lure men like that. It's illegal. - It's illegal.
That's why it's not easy to catch them.
In Pakistan, in the year 1990,
there was a serial killer named Javed Iqbal.
When he was young, his mother...
didn't receive any assistance from the police...
and so there was a time when she went through a hard time.
- So, he came up with a plan to do the same...
to a 100 other mothers. - That's scary.
He made up his mind to kill a 100 people.
So, for several years, he killed 100 people...
and after doing this, he wrote a letter and sent it in.
After sending it in, he appeared after committing the crime.
- He came to the station, saying he had killed a 100 people. - He turned himself in.
He was to be executed in front of the victims' family members.
- They also decided to cut his body into a 100 pieces... - Cut it up.
and dispose of his remains.
- That was the verdict? - Yes.
The Minister of Interior said you can't do that.
So, in the end he killed himself in jail.
The biggest problem is...
when society's social structure changes.
The types of crimes change.
In the case of the Sinjeong-dong serial murder,
he was someone who couldn't get a job was drinking makgeolli at 5pm,
and was dwelling over his misfortunes.
When he suddenly heard the giggling of a woman on the second floor of a town house.
So, like a person in a daze he took a hammer and...
went into the house.
That's how the murder happened.
That's the Sinjeong-dong serial murder.
The crimes for murder is different in each country,
so I think it would be the same for the correctional system.
How would it be different?
In Switzerland, there aren't a lot of criminals.
So, there's no reasons to make small prison rooms.
So, at this one Swiss prison,
they tried to suppress the inmates anger...
by painting the rooms pink.
- Is the room pink? - Yes.
They made the prison room pink.
Won't people who don't like pink get angrier?
(It's an interior that hides their preference.)
The project was called, "Cool Down Pink".
A lot of inmates didn't like having their rooms painted pink.
However, it did make a positive impact.
- Even though they didn't like it, the project still had a positive impact? - Yes.
That's interesting.
In China, we have a prison in Beijing called Qincheng Prison.
That prison is...
a special prison for political prisoners.
The reason why it's famous is because the prison is high-class.
- It's a prison for politicians. - Yes,
the amount of money spent on a meal for a person...
is $1,200 dollars.
- Wow. - But the average wage for a Beijing person is...
less than 1,000 dollars.
Also, an average Chinese person would deliberate...
whether they can afford to get a health check-up once a year.
They get that twice a day.
- Sorry? - Are you sure it's not a retirement home?
- Are you sure that they don't only get a endoscopy? - Why are they giving...
such nice things to people who have committed a crime?
If you go to India, you should never commit a crime.
- An Indian prison is like a nightmare. - Is it that bad?
This is how bad it is,
a prison that should only hold a 100 people may hold 150.
- Also during the summer, - It's hot.
the air is bad and you have mosquitoes.
Even if I wanted to do something bad, I'd imagine the prison...
and quickly come back to my senses.
If you go to prison in Germany,
the living quality is better than my one-room studio.
- It's better than your one-room studio. - It's better.
It's brighter than my place.
That's how good the prison is in Germany.
Does everyone get their own room?
Almost everyone gets their own room.
At most, it's two people to a room.
You have to work 8 hours a day for 5 days a week.
You receive half of your wages right away,
and the rest is saved up and given to you when you get out.
- I'm earning money for myself? - There is a convenience store...
inside the prison. That's a way you can spend the money.
- There's a convenience store? - A convenience store?
- You can buy frozen food. - Triangular kimbap.
If there are young people, who didn't graduate high school.
They assist you in getting your diploma...
or you can study at a cyber university through the internet.
- Cyber university. - You can study at a cyber university.
Do they have a sauna and massage in there?
They don't have that.
Since Lucky mentioned it,
there was an incident in India.
An Indian had murdered someone in Germany.
He was incarcerated for 10 years,
he was paroled on the condition that he goes back to India.
However, the moment he arrived in India,
he took a plane back to Germany.
Because even though he would be free in India,
he felt it was better to live in a German prison.
There was a similar incident in India,
a German man was arrested.
He asked to be sent to Germany immediately.
This is a different problem.
That's very ironic.
When we think of an inmates rights, we should give them a good prison environment,
but if the prison is too nice, the meaning of the prison would be lost.
It's a difficult problem.
- We'll now begin our debate on this topic. - This one is hard.
German prisons that cost a lot to run,
and Indian prisons that are very cheap to run.
What should we do about these two prisons?
Who thinks German prisons are better? In 1, 2.
It's Zahid, Lucky and Nik.
I don't think German prisons are better.
I'd prefer it if they were run more like the Indian prisons.
Do you think that will help to decrease crime?
I think German prisons are well run,
and they are too nice.
It's especially nice for people who don't have a home in winter.
- Those people commit crimes on purpose. - Exactly.
"I can have a better life inside a German prison."
That doesn't make any sense.
- That's true. - It's not logical.
If the prisons are nice,
it doesn't really feel like a punishment.
I think prison should be a place you fear, like India.
I think if people don't want to go to prison,
the crime rate could decrease.
How can you say that the loss of freedom is not a punishment?
Once you're in there...
Indian prisons also have everything in there.
Criminals go to prison, but they also have to be rehabilitated back into society.
- Right. - They need to learn a skill...
or receive treatment for their mental health.
- Right. - They need to be rehabilitated,
so that they can return to society later.
- That's how they would become a productive citizen. - That's true.
People without a home like beggars...
would rather commit a crime than work.
We understand. Okay.
From my perspective, the victim is the one who suffered,
whether the crime was big or small, the victim still suffered.
I think the person who hurt me should be punished.
In Italy, there was a similar problem to this.
You can just categorize the crime into prisons.
- What I mean is... - Then the person will commit the crime that fits the category.
They wouldn't murder someone.
You'd do it, if you didn't have a home or food.
If they didn't commit a big crime,
and they go to a prison that has terrible conditions,
then, that shock might be too much...
and they might not be able to rehabilitate themselves into society.
- The prison... - I think there is something that you misunderstand.
Indian prisons...
have a bad environment but it doesn't mean they'll cause you mental harm...
or stop you from being able to work later on.
Prisons are...
a place where you receive punishment.
You are there because you have committed a crime.
It's not a place to have a vacation. It's not a place to rest.
- Right. - That's why the environment has to be bad,
of course the inmates are going to suffer a little mentally.
In the past,
I had actually done some volunteer work at a prison.
Committing a crime is obviously a bad thing.
When you talk to them, they all have their reasons for doing something.
They might have grown up...
in a really bad environment.
They might have committed robbery every day.
There are a lot of different people in there.
That's why some inmates study really hard in prison...
and work really hard as well.
So, I think that we should protect the inmates rights to a certain extent.
There is one thing I'd like to say. Gandhi once said this,
"Hate the sin, Love the sinner."
Hate the crime, not the criminal.
That's obvious.
I'd like to see a day when the world is actually like that.
"Hate the sin, Love the sinner."
- Professor. - Yes?
- Germany or India? - What does she think?
- I have to choose one? - In 1, 2.
- Professor. - Yes?
- Germany or India? - What does she think?
- I have to choose one? - In 1, 2.
- She already raised her hand for Germany before. - Did she?
I'm not saying that the correctional system in Germany...
is always right or the best way to do this.
However, I do believe that prisons should be ranked.
Prisons in Korea...
are also improving for the better.
Although, it's not as nice as the German prisons,
they can use money to purchase snacks.
Prisons are also running classes to take qualification exams.
Inmates can also learn skills. Prisons in Korea are running all of this.
In the end, the best way to punish these people...
is to make them never commit a crime.
That's why...
we have to have some prisons that can lead and guide.
- Especially for the vicious? - Yes.
As I mentioned Na-young before,
the one that inflicted that irreversible pain, he's coming out soon.
That type of leniency by our legal system...
shouldn't exist in our country.
For these type of people,
generously returning them to their lives...
shouldn't be our responsibility, at all.
All right.
Now, even after the arrests are made, there are debates about the punishment.
Please raise your hand if you have sentence-reductions in your country.
I think it should be everyone.
One, two, three.
There's a lot of ways to reduce a sentence.
In the UK or US, it's called a plea-bargain.
It's handled before the trial...
and usually through consultation or settlement.
In Korea's case, we can do it during a trial.
It's called a "factor for reduction".
If evidence is presented during trial is sufficient for a reduction,
the courts have authority to reduce it.
- They can reduce the sentence? - Yes.
Aren't we still lenient against alcohol?
Right, we're still really generous.
We really reduce a lot of sentencing involving alcohol.
Especially in regards of assault and violence,
we reduce it a lot, if it's involved.
How is that proven though?
- Right, it's really hard to discern it as facts. - They may not remember.
"It's driving me crazy too, I can't remember."
Should we even be that lenient for alcohol?
Is that the right thing to do?
For me,
I'm just remembering about your confession, a while ago.
You're like a confessing icon.
Please be lenient for self-confessed crimes.
Of course, self-confessions are admissible for reducing a sentence.
- But I really think we shouldn't be lenient for alcohol. - You're right.
For us in the US,
if the criminal displays good behavior while incarcerated,
they can get it reduced. But if it's a real serious crime,
they don't allow it.
For example, if it's a serial killer,
each murder might give 50 years.
They combine it all.
If it's 10 people, it'd be 500 years.
Even though it could be reduced, it...
carries no meaning.
- I see. - They make it so that there's no reduction.
For us, we're lenient towards minors.
From the ages 14 through 18,
if the crime isn't too severe, the punishment is weaker.
However, these days,
there has been an increase in crimes involving minors.
For example, a boy wanted to steal...
an innocent girl's cell phone.
He poured gasoline on her and set her on fire.
- Who, the girl? - Yes.
So there has been some opinions on the leniency of punishing minors.
It's really controversial.
(Some are against leniency.)
In Mexico, if you just pay a hefty fine,
the jail time gets reduced, or...
you can just avoid going.
Comparing it to other countries, it could be seen as problematic.
You may be right.
How are we lowering the jail time here?
If they present a pre-condition for mental and physical weakness,
like a severe mental disorder...
or in some cases,
we just reduce it, if alcohol is involved.
Also, if there is some compromise between the victim and the criminal,
the sentence usually gets lowered.
There was something in 2007, in Canada.
A 24-year-old man assaulted his girlfriend.
After some tests,
they were diagnosed with dependent personality disorder.
So at trial,
the judge ordered him to be single for three years.
He just told her not to have a girlfriend for three years?
Was that really the verdict?
It was a legal verdict, he can't have a girlfriend.
- What happens if he does though? - He'll be arrested.
In my experience, the UK, US, and...
Canada, all have similar laws.
If a male and a female get violent on a date...
or some other form of domestic violence,
the courts really punish the criminals severely.
What I mean by severe, is...
of course jail time for the convicted felons.
But if it's a first-time offense,
there are court-ordered rehabilitation programs.
Of course, under the rehabilitation order, there are a lot of items.
For example, as mentioned before, for a short while,
they can't have a girlfriend and...
they'd need to get some psychological help with their personality.
I think there should've been some addenda to that verdict.
That's probably what Guillaume is talking about.
I think that was it.
Now, I'd like to move onto special pardons.
How many people do we have on pardon?
- We have a lot. - A lot?
It's really difficult to count.
- Every year... - What's the conditions for it?
In fact, we actually have requirements for it.
We have a parole-reviewing panel.
There's also a list there that they are looking at.
The names are reviewed and referred.
Finally, it'd go to the president for approval.
Even in the US, the president has the power for infinite pardons.
When Clinton was in office,
on his very last day,
he signed off on 100 people.
Out of those 100,
there was a rich, Swiss man,
who was a hedge fund manager.
- I wonder why him? - What's behind that?
- We don't know. - And also,
Do you think that they met afterwards?
Do you guys have this in Switzerland?
We don't have pardons.
But we did have some special case, recently.
Back in the second World War,
There were a lot of people who helped Jews...
get over to Switzerland, illegally.
A lot of those helpers were sent to jail.
So they had those criminal records erased from the system.
- So that's the special case. - It was really unique.
If I research some Korean legal terms,
there are some German words.
For example, special pardon is "Bernadigung".
But the original German word is...
not directly translated as "special pardon".
It's actually closer to parole.
In my knowledge, we don't have any special pardons in Germany.
(Germany doesn't have it.)
Now let's look at each country's...
biggest obstacles for unsolved cases.
Let's talk about some problems and the proposed solutions too.
Now let's look at each country's...
biggest obstacles for unsolved cases.
Let's talk about some problems and the proposed solutions too.
Honestly, this isn't just with Mexico,
but an issue plaguing a lot of other countries...
- is definitely corruption. - Corruption?
In Mexico's case,
the government owns the newspaper and broadcasting.
If there's some incident,
they can always hide it easily.
The citizens are in the dark about it.
- You're saying, get rid of the corruption? - Yes.
So the government workers...
should all be swiftly slashed.
I think that'd solve the issue.
For us Italians, the main reason why there are unsolved cases...
is because of politics.
The politicians can't leak worrisome information,
things that involve the Mafia and so on.
Also, not so much nowadays, but the Vatican had...
its issues in complete secrecy.
It was always shrouded.
So, I think it was always politics...
that made it hard for us.
I think the lack of technology is also something.
It could be a big factor in solving cases.
In Korea, you're always looking at a security camera.
But in Pakistan, we don't really have much.
Also, compared to the police of other countries, even the most basic things...
are not common for us.
So a lot of solvable cases remain unsolved, for us.
I think it has a lot to do with mannerism.
If the investigators are too complacent, it'd be unsolvable.
I think all cases should be handled as if it was the first time.
They demand such actions.
As cases keep repeating and repeating,
they want take shortcuts with predictions.
This can even lead into building stereotypes.
For me, it has to be the short attention-span of the masses.
It's the biggest problem.
There's an old Chinese saying,
"Since this isn't mine own,"
"put it higher and higher up."
It means, if I don't see it, it's not my problem.
I have an acquaintance who's a police chief.
I asked him if we have a police section...
to handle unsolved cases.
He said to me that they're too busy to do things like that.
Since the populace doesn't have any interest in it,
there's no clear solution to this.
Professor, in Korea's case,
do you have any reservations regarding our unsolved-case handling?
Since we just got rid of the statute of limitations,
the environment to pursue the cold cases...
are wide open.
Now, we need to devote some constant effort and patience...
to invest into them. But we're lacking resources and manpower.
Also,
there are a lot of new forensic technologies being developed.
So as we move forward, it's important that we...
utilize these tools and resources efficiently.
For us, just the number of registered,
unsolved murders reach over 200 cases.
But the problem is with missing-persons cases.
Nobody knows if they're dead or alive.
Some people had no reason to run away, but they went missing.
These cases total beyond 5,000.
- That's so crazy. - Also...
we don't have a database.
So we have to focus on building one, as soon as possible.
I think that's the most important thing.
We talked criminals with our professor here, today.
For the 114th Non Summit Meeting,
"I think we can solve the unsolved cases in Korea, am I abnormal?"
This issue seems to be aimed at those watching this from somewhere,
believing that they've committed the perfect crime.
We consider this as your sharp warning to them.
Right, stop right there and put your hands up.
- Is that right? - "Stop right there and put your hands up?"
How did you like being here today?
So today, it was...
an opportunity to listen to some really fluent Korean...
from these guys, I couldn't trust their backgrounds. It was a great discussion.
I was really moved by it.
I wish to have a chance to be back on here.
Thank you so much.
(We wish to see the unsolved cases be resolved soon.)
I would now like to adjourn our Non Summit Meeting.
Until the day we all become normal,
we'll be administering sharp warnings to the criminals-in-hiding.
Everybody stop, everybody stop
(Staring)
Bang, bang, bang
The meeting is adjourned.
It's the announcer Ahn Na-kyung.
We're expecting rain across the nation tomorrow. For our next story,
Isn't Sohn Suk-hee scary?
- Suk-hee is... - She just said his name.
- It's kind of... - What's Suk-hee's flaw?
- I don't know if I can say it on here. - You can.
There's probably some misinformation.
I actually presented that on-air myself.
The misinformation actually lands you in jail.
There's reporters that were killed.
In order to raise the viewer ratings, the news is fabricated.
- They can't reveal everything. - On a live broadcast,
they found out about a cheating husband.
The criminal was an arson...
(Non Summit Meeting, Mondays at 10:50pm)
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